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I asked a question several months ago for my son and got a lot of help and suggestions and hope someone can help me again.

He went to preview day at the California School of Culinary Arts, Le cordon Bleu Program. We are going to make another appointment to visit the school next week before making any kind of decision.

Has anyone heard of this school or its program and what do you think?

Here is a link to an article that ran a month or so again in a local San Francisco newspaper. Read it carefully.

There are a lot of very good cooking schools all over the country. Just be careful in the selection process that you and your son go through.

http://www.sfweekly.com/2007-06-06/news/burnt-chefs/

Jim

I'm not an expert on culinary schools, but I will say...

I agree with Jim. Be careful! There are some culinary schools out there that are expensive but do not have good programs. Some just ride on their names.

But there are also some EXCELLENT schools out there. I personally attended the Art Institute of Atlanta, which had a great program (there are Art Institutes all over the country, by the way). Some (like the AIA) offer accredited degrees-- associates and bachelors degrees. These are desirable, because you come away with more than just a certificate, especially when the certificate is only accredited by the school giving it, rather than a legitimate accrediting body.

My advice, for what it's worth, is look for a school that is accredited by (and works closely with) the American Culinary Federation-- such as The Art Institutes, the Culinary Institute of America, or Johnson and Wales. With the last two, they tend to be a little more expensive, but they are absolutely incredible schools. I did a lot of research when I went to school, and I would have loved to go to either one of those schools, but they were far from my family, which was important to me, so I stuck close to home.

Good luck!

Where are you located..and will it matter if he attends a school out of state? This will help in recommending a school.

I say this b/c I personally would not waste my precious time in taking a tour of CSCA...please be sure you read that article that Jim gave the link for. Our CEO of APPCA (Chef Candy) posted about this same article...it is truly both enlightening & shocking.

Here's a link from American Culinary Federation on accredited schools

Most culinary schools teach similar programs and cover the basics of culinary practices. Some offer "certificates", others may offer an Associates Degree (two year community or junior college degree), or maybe even a Bachelors (most probably in Hospitality or Restaurant Management with a culinary minor).

Community and junior colleges are the least expensive. Private schools, and most are corporate owned, are the most expensive.

Does the school name on the certificate/degree mean anything? That really depends on who is looking at it . If it is the HR/Personnel department of a corporation, probably yes. If it is an independent restaurant owner, probably not. If it is a chef-owner, it might be positive, than again it might be negative

A key point to remember, a graduate of any culinary school will probably go to work as a prep cook or kitchen assistant with a few lucky ones starting out on the line (rare). Most will be very lucky to start at $10-12, maybe $15 per hour. That's $400-600 per week or about $20k-30k annually (gross, not net). Kinda tough to repay very much in student loans at that rate.

Personally, I'd look long and hard for a local community college that offers a culinary program before even considering a private culinary school. Then again, I'm old, ornery, and a skeptic

Just an "oh by the way"... Pete's right about the expense. It definately is an expense, and it definately is difficult to repay on a line cook's salary. So... a lot of people don't know about this site, but www.fastweb.com is a site where you can sign up for free alerts about scholarships and grants. I found a lot of free money through this site that I never would have known about other wise.

I guess what you really have to think about is the payoff. What does he want to do after culinary school? Career goals will determine to some extent whether culinary school is a good investment, as some things don't require it... such as management positions. Something like that he'd be better served going to a good hospitality school at a state university, etc. Also he should keep in mind that if it's restaurants that he wants a career in, he should be prepared that the hours are brutal through the ENTIRE duration of his career... it's all nights, weekends, and holidays, no matter whether your the line cook, chef, or owner. I had a chef whose birthday was on Valentine's day. The poor man had not had his birthday off since he was 15 (he's in his mid-40's now)!!

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage him from going, just be sure the ends justify the means, and be SURE about the program he's entering. I agree with Pete that community schools are a good place to start, but I would still be JUST as careful, as I can name some down south (I'm from Georgia) where, yes it is less expensive, and, frankly, you get what you pay for. I would start with the ACF accredited schools, and go from there.

Agree definitely with Pete about the community colleges. Do look into them. I am at a local community college in Dallas that has an ACF accredited program - something I looked for when shopping around. To be honest, the Art Institute here really turned me off with their sales pitch and aggressive attitude. I knew I couldn't afford it anyway. And the education I am getting is definitely a good one, and for about $120 per class (plus books) you cannot beat the price! Nothing against other Art Institutes, because I hear they can be good; just had a bad experience here.

Just be sure whatever program is chosen, it has an accreditation from an entity like ACF.

Anne, Interesting you should mention the aggressiveness of Art Institutes. I had a similar experience. They were still calling me after I had started school at a different culinary school. Just wouldn't take no for an answer.

My experience with working in professional kitchens is that the culinary certificate looks great on paper and it will help you get an interview. But you're still going to have to prove you can cook to get the job. If you can, find a school that teaches the basics, preferably with ACF accredidation. However, don't overlook community colleges. The one in Anne Arundel County, Maryland has an excellent culinary program. And get a job in a professional kitchen and start getting experience as soon as possible, even if it's doing prep.

You said it! I've worked part-time at 2 restaurants and done catering. I'm currently working part-time at a restaurant to fulfill a school requirement, but it's also the "REAL WORLD" and NOTHING can take the place of it. It is absolutely the best experience. School taught me the basics and I can "speak the language" of the kitchen, but working the line (desserts, in my case) on a Fri. or Sat. night will give you a feel for what it's really like to work in the food business.

I cannot thank you all enough for your help and to Jim for the link. My son read your replies and spent most of the night doing research into different options. I always want my kids to make their own career decisions and know they could make mistakes, however, this could be a $45,000 mistake.

Thanks again, he really listened and will continue to read replies.

This came to me in my email today, as the article Jim referred to is CCA in the Bay area...not the California School of Culinary Arts.The CSCA is located in Pasadena , CA .

This is what he had to say:

My wife is currently attending there in their Baking/Pastry program, and I have 2 friends who graduated their Full Culinary Program.

The school is one big MONEY MILL. Although it’s true you do learn skills, the administration that runs the school only cares about $$$$$$$ and nothing else. They are worthless when it comes to actually helping the students find externships, etc. Some of the teachers are terrible and very unfair to the students. Because most of the students are 18 year old High School Graduates the school thinks they can just screw them over and they won’t say anything because they are young and naïve.

Personally, after seeing what my wife has gone through there, I would never attend nor recommend the school to anyone. You can get 95% of the education you can get there at a local community college and will cost you about $59K less.


Again, this came to me in my email. This is an opinion only based on their personal experience.

Thanks so much for sharing the E-mail you got. We are starting to think this may not be the route to take and will look elsewhere. Fortunately, my son isn't discouraged and still has a passion for cooking.
Thanks.

Good for him! That's this business in a nutshell, keeping your chin up.

Has he looked for any restaurant jobs, yet?

Give him our best wishes. Again, I would be more than happy to speak with him directly as well.

Best. - John

John, maybe I should give a little background. He just finished his first year at community college. His itent was to transfer to a university after two years. The debate was whether he should put in his second year at community or go right on to a culinary or other tech school.
He has never worked in a restaurant but is looking into it at ones near us. His only experience in cooking is making meals and experimenting at home.

The only experience he needs. It's best to go in with no pre-conceived notions about the business. He won't be too cocky if he doesn't believe the Food-TV stuff as he views it.

Those places close to home may be great for a basic PT-job in a kitchen. I do strongly stick with the independents are a great place to begin.

I worked with PT help that was also in the middle of Law-School at BC so it can be done! If he is truly eager.

Wish him well. - John

Jackie, thanks for posting that e-mail. Having had experience with a similar situation, thought I'd share it with you all.

When I was Pres. of my local paralegal assoc. here, I used to address groups of paralegal students at 2 of the large paralegal schools in town. Within about 2 years I saw a huge change in one of the reputable schools, as they were bought out by another organization. And the change is very similar to the situation in the article Jackie posted.

The school was into money, money, money, and the quality of graduates declined as well. I feel this is the same situation that is occuring with culinary programs across the country now. (How ironic that I went from one profession to another with a similar "problem!")

Due to the popularity of "Food TV" and all the celebritiy chefs, people have more of an interest in food & cooking. Bravo! I say. HOWEVER, I feel these schools are taking advantage of this new "trend" and folks wanting culinary careers. They promise the moon and don't deliver.

It was the same thing with the paralegal schools; decline in the quality of student turned out, and the school saying that they could make a lot of money (I would always have to be real honest with the students when I addressed them, and tell them they sure wouldn't make that starting out, and had to get at least 5 years of experience before they MIGHT make that kind of money).

This is a BIG pet peeve of mine, and the experience with the Art Institute here in Dallas smacks of the same type of situation; charging an arm and a leg for an education that you could get for a lot less at a local community college. Again, not all Art Institutes are the same, but I definitely saw that "trend" when I talked to them. It's like a gristmill that's just churning out students and taking the money.

OK, like I said, this is a BIG pet peeve of mine, and I'll now get off my soapbox! Sorry for the long-winded reply!

I'm not going to try and be the Art Institute hero here, because I haven't experienced all of them. However, I'm sorry if you guys were the victims of a couple of aggressive admissions people, but keep in mind that not everyone had that experience, AND that those admission people are not the chefs teaching in the kitchens. The program I attended was excellent and was well worth the money, especially when I compared it with the other schools- private and community colleges- in the area.

I'm not going to climb on my soapbox about some of the other schools out there, nor will I go off on how upset I get when people bash culinary school grads and say that the education we received was not worth the money, because I know quite well that it was.

All I want to say is let's just be a little careful what we say on here. A lot of people read this forum, and I can't imagine that I'm the only person out there who doesn't like to be referred to as a student who graduated from a money-making gristmill. I'll put my degree, certifications, experience, etc. up against anyone's any day of the week. That sounds a little aggressive but I really don't mean it to be. I am just a little sensitive about that kind of thing.

I think it suffices to say that Szaftoo, you should look carefully at the programs available and decide together with him which one is the best fit for your son. Some people are okay with taking a few classes here and there to improve the skills they already have. Some, like me, prefer a full out college degree and certifications from bodies like the ACF that will help when they go to get that job. You have to decide what is important to you. Don't be afraid to check out places like Culinary Institute of America Nappa Valley. It's one of the best schools in the world, and there are all kinds of scholarships and grants available for the students. If he is coming right out of high school, an education from a place like that might be a good choice for him, as it will open A LOT of doors (like amazing internships and great networking and contacts), especially if he decides to go on and do graduate work in a hospitality program. Grad schools look a lot more kindly on schools like CIA and Johnson and Wales.

The point is, he needs to go to the school that best fits his life plans, and, he will get out of it ONLY as much as he puts in, no matter what school he goes to. Most importantly, if he doesn't already have one, he needs to get a job in a restaurant with a chef (one who has creative control of the restaurant, not a fast casual place like Applebee's) who will be willing to teach him. He'll probably start on the pastry line, but we've all been there. It's rough sometimes and boring sometimes. But eventually he'll move up and taste the true rewards of that kind of work. The creative rewards of working on a hot line in an amazing restaurant can't be expressed in words. If he loves to cook, he'll love that experience!

Good luck to him!!!

hi there, I was curious Greek Chef. I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, so please don't take it that way.

Did you read the article on the school and the former sales reps associated with it?

So many individuals can have such a wide array of experiences in certain situations.

I'm very glad it worked out so well for you though. Great!

Best to you. - John

Greek Chef and John, thanks again for your replies. I will ageee this decision is so difficult for him because there are so many different opinions. Does he go with his gut or look at the background of people who have succeeded in the business? Does he learn by "doing" or by professionals?

Fortunately culinary schools have varying enrollment dates so he isn't being pushed for time.

John, so far he is truly eager and not easily discouraged.

Hi, John!

Don't worry, no confrontations...

Are you talking about the school Jim posted the article about? I did read it. That makes me sad. That article was about California Culinary Acadamy, though. I was just speaking specifically about the Art Institutes, as I went to the Art Institute of Atlanta. They're not owned by the same people. I was responding to the comments by Jeannine and Anne about The Art Institutes.

And you are right, people have such varying experiences, that's why I said we should try and watch what we say a bit, cause I think we should remember that some people have had good experiences in culinary schools. They're not all bad, and not all the private ones are bad. I have nothing against community colleges, heaven knows I appreciate money saving, but my experience was that the program I attended was better than the community colleges' programs. All I was trying to say was that Szaftoo and her son should be careful, but not rule out some of the private schools, cause some of them are very good.

I don't think that the article is representative of all private schools by any means. The Art Institutes are NOT owned by Career Education Corporation, but Le Cordon Bleau Atlanta is, which is one of the reasons I didn't go there. I knew students from AIA AND from LBA and decided to go to AIA based on the quality of the students and the reputation of the program. Besides that, AIA worked in conjunction with the ACF and offered accredited college degrees, neither of which LBA did. I found AIA to be well worth the money. I did my homework...

I think the CCA situation is sad, and I get really upset about that kind of thing, because it brings down the reputation of all culinary schools, especially private ones. But not all private schools are like that. I was accepted to Johnson and Wales and would have gone there, but I had to make the decision that was right for me, which was to stay close to my family and my church. That's all I'm encouraging Szaftoo and her son to do. Check them all out, talk to some professionals in the area, preferably people in hiring positions, who can tell them about the quality of the students from the various schools, and make the decision that is best for them.

So, just to clarify for anyone who's reading, I did NOT go to CCA, I went to the Art Institute of Atlanta. I am sad about the CCA situation, and I think it is a problem that brings down the reputation of other schools. I also don't like pushy admissions reps, but sometimes they're worth putting up with if the program is good (which it was at the Art Institute of Atlanta).

Sorry this was so long, and sorry if I offended anyone in this or my other posts. It was not my intent...